BMW Einzylinder-Forum
TERMINE und FORUMSTECHNIK => International discussion forum in english language => Thema gestartet von: arth am 14 Juni 2007, 10:11:38
Hi:
I found the other oil some clean oil of my R-23, it seems to be oil/valvuline from the gearbox, I could not find the origin of the leackage.
I am going to empty all the oil and refill it but I need some help
1) How much oil do I have to put inside
2) Where is the screw I have to move to empty/refill it
Thanks in advance
Antonio
If your gearbox is similar to the R24 gearbox, the scew to empty/refill is on the left side next to the foot lever. you will have to fill in oil until the oil appears at the beginning of this screw's thread (R24).
I hope, this posting is helpful, kind regards, kruemel
Hi Antonio,
you do not need to tilt your bike 90° to the left in order
to emty the gearbox oil. There is another lock screw at
the bottom side of the gearbox; just in the middle between
the main stand.
Sorry for presenting a pretty oily picture - the bike
was chased around the lake Eder last weekend....
Thomas
...and another guy who did not clean his bike immediately! ;D
Thanks God, I'm not the only one.
Greetings,
Jörg
@Thomas
... and next year I will drive you to the bone, that you will loose your lower screw in the gear-box. I'm working on that topic very hard.
Knut
Well Knut - i´m sure you are doing a good job.
Next year the competition will be low RPM idle mode, no max speed.
I am working hard on this.
Cu
Thomas
:P
Zitat von: odeon8 am 14 Juni 2007, 21:24:08
Next year the competition will be low RPM idle mode, no max speed.
I am working hard on this.
Cu
Thomas
:P
OK, accepted ;D
Recommened is a RPM-Meter mounted at the project, or
do we have a extern measurement ?
Thomas, what's about your boost project ?
Did it work already ?
My working at this is icely down
Nice to hear about this,
regards, mek :bike:
Zitat von: odeon8 am 14 Juni 2007, 21:24:08
Next year the competition will be low RPM idle mode, no max speed.
Low RPM idle mode ?? Then I will ask a friend of mine to borrow me his Lanz Bulldog. There we do not need a RPM-Meter... we can count !
Knut
Zitat von: mekgyver am 14 Juni 2007, 23:15:58
(...) what's about your boost project ?
Hi Mek,
i have been at lake Eder and kept the Kawasaki and the Speedtriple behind me...
Roger & Jule reported our max. speed was 130 km/h....so WHAT is the
need for a charger ? :D ;D
Edersee is 250 m over sea level - this made a lot of boost to my engine
compared to the 680 m of Pöcking 8)
Thomas S(atisfied)
Sorry for late answer, thanks to all, I opened a big screww which is up on the left side of the bike, there is a spring after this screew, I think I have to refill it through here, also found the other one which I can use it to empty it, the thing is how much oil/valvuline do I have to put inside now?? :oberlehrer:
Rgds
Antonio
Hi Antonio,
the screw for adding oil is on the left side of the gearbox as shown at the picture below.
The bike manual does not mention the gearbox at all ???
But the sparepart list (http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/Start/tips/handbuecher/motorrad/R20+R23-ETL.pdf) gives a hint: Just fill in until the oil gets to the
beginning of the thread of the charging hole.
Thomas
Thanks Thomas, so my question is now for the big screw that there is at the oposit side of the one you indicate me on the picture. I thought that was for the gearbox oil :Frage:
There is a big screw on the other side.
Rgds
Antonio
Hi Antonio,
what about taking a picture from your bike showing the screws you've mentioned ? Also one from the bottom of the motor - gearbox.
With that photos we can indicate the screws and give more details.
By the way, the maximum size of photos is 100kB. So a resolution of 640 x 480 is recommended as the maximum. For mounting the pictures into your answer click below the answering window on "Erweiterte Optionen...." and "Datei anhängen:" and search for the photos on your computer with the "Durchsuchen..." bottom. If you wish to include more pics, use the bottom "(mehr Dateianhänge)" for maximum 4 pictures.
Cheers and take care
Knut
Sure Knut:
This the the screw mentioned by the handbook and by Thomas
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7526/img1513tb7.jpg
This is the one I opened (cost me a lot!! :galgen:)
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7113/img1511cp4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2797/img1512wc8.jpg
This is the leackage
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5209/img1518jc6.jpg
Rgds
Antonio
OK Antonio,
it seems to me that it's my job for answering you.
Step by step: The screw figured in http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7113/img1511cp4.jpg and http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2797/img1512wc8.jpg has nothing to do with the oil change. I do not really know the function of this, because my R27 hasn't got this.
On picture http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5209/img1518jc6.jpg we see both screws for draining the motor and the gear-box. Both must be properly sealed with copper washer and tightened with a torque of 25Nm = 18.5 lbf*ft.
In addition it seems to me that the gasket of the oil sump is a little bit leaky, isn't it?
For refilling the oil into the gear-box use normal motoroil with the viscosity class SAE 30 (The viscosity mentioned in the manual 10 - 12°E is the old unit used prior to 2nd world war). Use only unalloyed oil without synthetic elements which can be harmful for the non-ferrous metals like copper and brass. If you want to use gear-box oil take SAE 90 according to GL3 specification (not GL4 or GL5).
The refilling itself is a little bit tricky but made after opening the screw on pic http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7526/img1513tb7.jpg
The manual instruction do not indicate any volume so fill in until the bottom of the thread will be moistened. It must be about 1 pint.
Try it out
Cheers
Knut
So, is it OK to use 80-90W hypoid gear oil in the R26? I just changed the oil and by default filled it with a high quality (Belray) 80-90W Hypoid oil as I do with my boxer.
-Kevin
Hi Kevin,
do not use hypoid oil - it will cause problems. Instead of hypoid oil fill motor-oil W30 or W40 into the gear-box of an old one cylindered lady and forget about the things you may have read somewhere else.
Questions towards that subject - which oil is the best in the salad engine is a subject deeply discussed in our forum. Indeed I can t say whether these information are swept over into foreign languages, may be it is.
Regards
Bernd
Hi Kevin,
as Bernd says, you must not use gear oils with API GL4 or GL5 specification!
They cause corrosion on certain parts in the gear box.
Use gear oil GL3 or regular motor-oil.
Ruetz
Thanks Bernd and Ruetz. I made the change but did not ride the bike. I will remove the oil and put 40W back.
-Kevin
Hi Kevin,
might be interesting for you too - oil in the shaft drive should not be hypoid, but you can use HD80 (API GL3) NOT motor oil.
Regards
Bernd
My understanding is the use of hypoid oil as opposed to motor oil was permitted after new seals were installed. There are several bulletins in the '66 and '67 timeframe that specify use of hypoid oil beginning with certain frame numbers and/or use of the oil seals.
I've also heard much discussion about the use of GL5 with higher sulphur contents in transmissions, etc., and the possibility that this damages the internals. I can't say that I've heard many owners reported this happening, but the use of GL4 should be just fine if someone wanted to use gear oil and was concerned about any damage to the brass elements of the tranny.
Kurt in S.A.
The drive shaft oil appears to be motor oil and I will leave it so. Clearly newer is not necessarily better (i.e. hypoid GL4 or 5) in this instance (when one considers the internal components, which is what we are trying to protect).
-Kevin
40 wt motor oil and 90 weight gear oil are relatively the same viscosity. It's really the make up of the gear oil, especially hypoid oil, which is required for extreme pressure such as one gets in helical gearsets.
Kurt in S.A.
ZitatMy understanding is the use of hypoid oil as opposed to motor oil was permitted after new seals were installed. There are several bulletins in the '66 and '67 timeframe that specify use of hypoid oil beginning with certain frame numbers and/or use of the oil seals.
This permission was only concerning the rear wheel drive. It was never permitted for the gear box.
http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/Start/tips/tips/adm/htm/admserv.php
If you use GL4 (some kinds will go, others not. I won't use it anymore), check regularly whether the oil is discolouring rusty or brassy.
Ruetz
Zitat von: Rütz am 15 August 2010, 19:40:49
This permission was only concerning the rear wheel drive. It was never permitted for the gear box.
You might be right. The June 1967 service bullentin only addresses twin cylinder bikes but I thought that maybe at the same point in time, the single cylinders would also have been changed in a similar manner.
Kurt in S.A.
because production of single cylinders stopped in 1967 (the last R27's built)...
Do yourself a favour and put only engine oil SAE 30 or 40 (or mineral 10W-40 or 15W-40) in the gearbox. And the rear wheel drive too. Or a GL 3 gearbox oil. Where is the problem ? Its cheaper and does no damage. Modern gearbox oils can damage things - not all do, but you cannot know which one does...
Zitat von: rolf.soler am 15 August 2010, 21:32:44
Do yourself a favour and put only engine oil SAE 30 or 40 (or mineral 10W-40 or 15W-40) in the gearbox.
I'm about to do that for the tranny in my R25/2. I wasn't sure and asked Craig Vechorik at Bench Mark Works...they sent me GL4. Shifting has been a little tough going from 1st to 2nd because of the wide gear ratio (I think). Next time out, I'll change to 40w and see how it goes.
Kurt in S.A.
Well, I put 30W Castrol motor oil in and my R26 seems to shift fine. I did some further checking locally and cannot find a source for GL3 gear oil. A local specialty oil shop (industrial) recommended a Cognis (not sure of spelling) industrial oil called EP3 (extreme pressure 3) oil for gears with brass. It comes in several 'thicknesses' starting at 68W, 100W and so on. Has anyone heard of this type of oil?
-Kevin
again: what do you want / need a "gearbox oil" for ? Stay with your SAE 30 engine oil. Safe and effective and recommended by BMW 50 years ago.
Understood. My question was merely a discussion point. I put 30w in the gear box and just returned from a 30 minute run. Shifting was good, once I found first.
-Kevin
Zitat von: Kurt in S.A. am 15 August 2010, 20:29:06
You might be right. The June 1967 service bullentin only addresses twin cylinder bikes but I thought that maybe at the same point in time, the single cylinders would also have been changed in a similar manner.
Kurt in S.A.
It was funny...nearly everybody forgets that GL 4 and higher wasn't available 1967 (and higher)....if there was written of oil....then they talked about oil produced (with specifications) in the sixties...
Rolf
Hello, to everybody, I am back again here!
After having the bike stop for sometime I have deiced to run it again, renew city driving licence and insurance but before that I have to change the gear box oil.
I have tried to buy SAE 90 GL-3 but at least in Spain, I cannot find it, in my city no way and non of major websites :galgen: :galgen:
I have contacted one of Spain's expert on these bikes
http://www.natxobarral.com/?m=1&s=1
And they have suggested me Sintectic oil SAE 150 for gearbox (Valvuline)
Any help please?? :bike:
Arth
In this case i(!) would use standard cheap SAE 15w40 engine oil.
Or monograde engine oil SAE30, if available.
The gears are not constructed for special "gear oils", the EP additives in these oils will do more harm than benefit.
Ruetz
YES SIR!
Mineral both I guess??, what about SAE 80-90W GL-4, I can get this one
Arth
Gl 4 has too much additives, it can(!) destroy your "Bronze"
Zitat von: arth am 22 September 2010, 16:09:56
what about SAE 80-90W GL-4, I can get this one
No...!
just put in engine oil, just like the manual says....monograde 30 or 40, or the cheapest (!) mineral 15W-40. OK ?
Zitat von: Rütz am 22 September 2010, 15:56:49
In this case i(!) would use standard cheap SAE 15w40 engine oil.
Or monograde engine oil SAE30, if available.
The gears are not constructed for special "gear oils", the EP additives in these oils will do more harm than benefit.
Ruetz
Something like this??
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/RP135Y51
Diesel engines oil??, mineral
obviously this is the perfect one 8)
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg153.imageshack.us%2Fimg153%2F8765%2F6891519363bf.jpg&hash=66f8fa36dccd8f1b9445f3759c65bf52ff3162e1) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/6891519363bf.jpg/)
Arth
Zitat von: arth am 23 September 2010, 15:18:13
Something like this??
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/RP135Y51
Diesel engines oil??, mineral
Arth
Why diesel?
You may use this for all:
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/CEPS0003
Or probably better:
This for Gearbox and Transmission (final drive):
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/RP173X51
(I use such an oil in the gearbox for years an find it perfect. I'm pretty shure it's declared "Gl3" on the bottle)
and this for the Engine:
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/CEPS1804
Ruetz
Zitat von: Rütz am 23 September 2010, 18:05:14
Or probably better:
This for Gearbox and Transmission (final drive):
http://mercalubricantes.com/epages/ea9617.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=/Shops/ea9617/Products/RP173X51
(I use such an oil in the gearbox for years an find it perfect. I'm pretty shure it's declared "Gl3" on the bottle)
I think I am using one like this in my two stroke Honda Hurricane.
Arth
Has anyone come across SHELL AUTOOEL 4 X? I just purchased a '56 Triumph BDG 250 (mit Doppelkolben) and the manual calls for this oil for the transmission and chain case.
-Kevin
Yepp, me!
Shell Autooel 4x (also called Golden Shell) was a multi-purpose oil, which was brought to the market beginning of the 30's and was state-of-the-art until late 50's.
Multi-purpose in that way that it was often announced for oil in a two-stroke cycle engine as well as in gear-boxes etc. Last winter I restored a fire-engine with a 2-stroke DKW engine. The manual's suggestion for tank and pump was Shell Autooel 4x in summer and 2x for winter.
Taking into account the date of the commercial launch mid of the 30's or earlier, Shell Autooel is a pure base oil without any additives.
Autooel 4x should have the viscosity of SAE 50, and the 2x = SAE 30 resp.
Hope this helps
Knut
Thanks Knut. It's no wonder I couldn't find any information on the oil if it traces back to the 30s. Apparently is was often used in many of the smaller engines in bicycles equipped with same.
-Kevin
I think this one will be ok
http://cgi.ebay.es/3L-Oldtimer-Getriebeol-SAE-80W-GL3-fur-Adler-AWO-BMW-/170535635094?pt=Autopflege_Wartung&hash=item27b4b74896
It is SAE 80 not 90 but GL-3
Will it work??
Arth
To make it short: Looks fine. It's quite similar to every regular SAE 30 motoroil.
Again: why not using normal mineralic 15W40 motor-oil for your gear-box? It's recommended for R27 in the manual - and the technique is quite similar to all other models prior to this??
Knut