BMW Einzylinder-Forum
TERMINE und FORUMSTECHNIK => International discussion forum in english language => Thema gestartet von: korremann am 09 Januar 2007, 11:48:35
Hi everybody
I have looked on the german forum, but I cant find anything that fits to my subject.
I have a lot of rust inside a tank, that I want´s to remove. What is the best way to do this??
I don´t asume that "sandgestrahl" is a good way, obvious because of the sand in a tank!
Afterwards when the rust is removed, what kind of coating should i give it. My 25/3 tank has a red/orange coating inside- anyone who knows what this is?
Bjarke
Hi Bjarke!
You can search for "Tankbeschichtung entfernen" in the german section. Some of us have experience with this topic, I think Pfanni was the last one. I recommend using "Spax" screws and a concrete-mixer (?!?). I do not know, if Spax-screws are available outside germany, they are mostly sold here in a green box markes with the brand name "Spax". You should chose the black ones (phosphated). put them in your tank and put it in the concrete mixer (of course covered with pillos tec...) and turn the mixer on for an hour.
regards, kruemel
Hello Bjarke.
I have a similar problem (some rust inside and a coating that is not sticking properly-done by the previous owner). After doing some research in the forum I have decided to use small "Spax" (wood-working) screws to remove the loosened coating and rust (as Kruemel has written), then I will apply some paint strip ("Setta Lackentferner") to remove as much as possible of the remaining coating. Afterwards it's another round with the screws to get rid of the rust that might have been hidden below the coating-and finally I currently plan to use the POR15 product series for coating the tank again from the inside....
There are various other strategies here in the forum using different means of removing rust and old coatings, e.g. by using broken glass or small pieces of lead and of how to make sure that the tank isn't starting to corrode again afterwards (using the lead to clean it seems one approach, but I have read also about adding a small amount of oil to the fuel every now and then or using different kinds of coating, of course).
The sand-blasting way of cleaning the tank has a huge drawback: If the walls of the tank are already quite thin from rust you will end up with a sieve afterwards-and the general consent is that whatever coating you use it will never stop your tank from leaking (has been discussed just recently). The sand inside didn't seem to be a real problem as whatever way you use to remove rust and old paint you will end up with a lot of small pieces of rust and coating inside the tank anyway-using proper blasting material should not make the final cleaning much more difficult.
Best regards, Tassilo
Hallo, kann mir das einer ins Englische übersetzten bitte, mein Englisch ist zum schreiben leider zu schlecht. :-\\
Hallo
ich hab von einem Kolegen vom Boote-Forum.de einen genialen Rostlöser gekauft. Die Flüssigkeit heisst "Pikaplus". Hab es auch in einem rostigen Tank bereist ausprobiert und es funzt genial. Die Flüssigkeit 3 bis 10h drinnlassen und anschliessend mit Wasser gut ausspühlen. Nach dem trocknen lassen hab ich den Tank innen versiegelt. (Mit flüssigem 2K-Epoxi)
Pikaplus kann ( http://www.metasco.de/shop/xtcommerce/product_info.php?info=p7_Pikaplus.html ) hier bestellt werden.
Gruss aus der Zentralschweiz
Christian
Hello Bjarke.
Please find below Christian's text translated....
Zitat von: ch4 am 09 Januar 2007, 13:49:40
Hello
I bought a superb rust remover from a colleague from boote-forum.de. The liquid's brand name is "Pikaplus". I tested it with a rusty tank already and it worked like a charm. The liquid needs to remain in the tank for 3 to 10 hours, then the tank needs to be rinsed thoroughly with water. After drying it I coated the inside of the tank (with liquid 2k-epoxi).
You can order Pikaplus here: ( http://www.metasco.de/shop/xtcommerce/product_info.php?info=p7_Pikaplus.html ).
Best regards from Central Switzerland
Christian
Hallo Christian.
Das hört sich recht interessant an. Auf der Seite sind aber recht wenig Informationen verfügbar, die Flasche scheint aber einen recht umfangreichen Aufdruck zu haben...
Daher hätte ich dazu noch zwei Fragen:
1. Muß das Pikaplus irgendwie temperaturmäßig bei Laune gehalten werden oder reicht Zimmertemperatur?
2. Wie funktioniert es (Rostumwandler?!)...
Schöne Grüße, Tassilo
PS@Bjarke: I just asked Christian for some more details re. required temperature for usage and whether he would know how it's actually working...the web-page doesn't offer too much details, but the bottle's label seems to provide quite some information....
Zitat von: Tassilo am 09 Januar 2007, 12:14:24
The sand-blasting way of cleaning the tank has a huge drawback: If the walls of the tank are already quite thin from rust you will end up with a sieve afterwards-and the general consent is that whatever coating you use it will never stop your tank from leaking
@ Tassilo:
In this case it doesn't matter WHAT you are doing with this tank to get rid off the rust - it will leak ANYWAY, because vibrations weaken the material bit by bit (I already made my experiences with such a tank). I'm searching for years to find a way to "strenghten" somehow the weak material but I think it is impossible...
@ Bjarke:
You can try to use chemistry: a chemical reduction of rust [ FeO(OH) ] to iron [Fe(III)] with "rust primer" or "rust convertors". But take care - such rust primer are mostly based on phosphoric acid. In case your tank-material is already weak, this phosphoric acid will weaken it even more!
Good luck,
Karl
Zitat von: Tassilo am 09 Januar 2007, 14:22:26
Hallo Christian.
Das hört sich recht interessant an. Auf der Seite sind aber recht wenig Informationen verfügbar, die Flasche scheint aber einen recht umfangreichen Aufdruck zu haben...
Daher hätte ich dazu noch zwei Fragen:
1. Muß das Pikaplus irgendwie temperaturmäßig bei Laune gehalten werden oder reicht Zimmertemperatur?
2. Wie funktioniert es (Rostumwandler?!)...
Schöne Grüße, Tassilo
PS@Bjarke: I just asked Christian for some more details re. required temperature for usage and whether he would know how it's actually working...the web-page doesn't offer too much details, but the bottle's label seems to provide quite some information....
Hallo Tassilo
Pikaplus ist (eigentlich) ein Sanitärreiniger. ;D Wie das Chemisch funzt hab ich keine Ahnung. Da müsstest Du Tom selbst fragen. Ich hab mal zu Testzwecken zwei rostige Schrauben über Nacht reingelegt. Am Morgen sahen sie aus wie sandgestrahlt und sehr matt. Im Boote-Forum.de mal unter 'Pikaplus' suchen und da findest Du zB. Glumpo. Der hat viel an seinem Motor/Antrieb mit Pikaplus entrostet.
Gruss aus der Zentralschweiz
Christian
Hello Bjarke.
Here's the latest posting from Christian
Zitat von: ch4 am 09 Januar 2007, 16:58:44
Hello Tassilo
Pikaplus is basically a sanitary cleaner. ;D I have no clue how it's chemically working. You will have to ask Tom himself (comment Tassilo: he seems to be the one who is producing and selling this stuff). For test purposes I once have put two rusty screws into this over night. Next morning I these looked as if sand-blasted and very matt. Search the Boote-Forum.de for 'Pikaplus', there you will find e.g. Glumpo. He derusted a lot of parts of his boat's engine/ drive with Pikaplus.
Best regards from Central Switzerland
Christian
I have checked the named forum and found that this stuff seems to be very effective, although I could not find any information about the way it's working...but in one posting Tom warned that it will also affect chrome...so making sure that the tank is absolutely tight could be a good idea... ;)
@Karl: thanks...my understanding was that sandblasting a weakened tank would do more harm than the screws (for example), as the mechanical stress and the impact power would be higher (and I suspected sand-blasting to take away also clean steel).
Best regards, Tassilo
Hello
Thanks for your aswers there are many good ideas.
Kruemel :
Yes, it is possibly to get Spax screws here in Denmark, and it sounds like a good way to get rid of the rust, but my tank is probably in poor shape so if its possible I would rather use chemistry than screws.
Tassilo:
Thanks for the translating both ways, that was very nice. I understand some german but with long and technical answers it gets a bit hard!.
As i said to Kruemel, the walls in my tank is probably, in poor shape because of a lot of rust, so I don´t know how sandblasting would affect the tank-sides.
Ch4:
Danke für das antwort, Pikaplus sieht gut aus mit viele möchlichkeiten für bearbeidung metall. Mein mutter ist Chemieingeniör, und vieleicht können Sie mir etwas aus Pikaplus erzahlen.
Karl:
I know about the phosphoric acid in many products, and I have looked after something in Denmark I could use, but I haven´t found the perfect product yet.
It seems that Pikaplus could be a very good choice, but as Tassilo says there isn´t anything about how its working. Allthoug it seems to be a effective product so it will probably also affect other metals.
How much damage would sandblasting affect the tank? Using screws sounds like more hard to the tank?
Thanks Bjarke
Hello Bjarke.
You´re welcome :)
Re. PikaPlus...the web-page offers both German and English (flags in the lower right corner) so I would assume that Tom (from the Boote-forum) is capable of speaking English as well. As he mentioned in the boats-forum that he was the one who is producing this stuff he should be able to provide some information in English if asked directly....
Best regards, Tassilo
Hey Bjarke,
how is the painting of your tank?
Poor? If not (better: if you don't want to paint it new) forget Chemical products.
If you don't take "sand" for blasting, you have better take " Glasspearls (Glasperlen)" ,, it will give no harm to your tank.
If even the glass produce holes....than there was no metal before and you see where to weld (better now than after painting).
Rolf
Zitat von: korremann am 10 Januar 2007, 09:16:37
if its possible I would rather use chemistry than screws.
Be careful with chemistry! I made very bad experiences. Once my tank was chrome-plated and very rusty inside, so I gave it to a galvanisation-specialist to remove the chrome (with an acid) and convert the rust back to iron. But the result was that the acid removed too much chrome / rust and the tank-walls got holey like swiss cheese (micro holes > the walls became chappy and leaky > no way to seal it).
Kind regards,
Karl
Karl ,
dein tank wäre auch ohne Chemie hin gewesen (wie schon mal erwähnt), Chrom schliesst keine Löcher (wie Innenversiegelung auch nicht, auch schon mehrmals erwähnt),
Der einzige Unterschied wäre gewesen, das du denkst das du einen dichten Tank hast, ....bis er lackiert wäre und dann mit Benzin gefüllt worden wäre.
Das ganze erinnert mich an einen Kumpel von mir, der drehte seine Zündkerze immer nur handfest rein, weil sein Gewinde kaputt war.... es wurde aber nicht wirklich heiler durch das zu schwache reindrehen der Kerze ( der Motor hatte nur (u.a.) keine leistung mehr und ging letztendlich fest, auch dort war ich Prediger in der Wüste ;D ).
Soll heissen: wenn durch Chemie oder Glasperlstrahlen Löcher "erscheinen"....WAREN SIE SCHON DA!!
Bloß weil man sie vorher nicht wahrgenommen hatte ist der tank noch lange nicht heil, bloß weil die Zündkerze nicht beim reinschrauben überdrehte, war trotzdem das Gewinde im Arsch! Auch wenn man es beim "handfesten" reindrehen nicht"sah".
Rolf N(icht sehen und merken heisst nicht "es ist nicht da" )
Hi Bjarke.
One additional thought re. screws....you are not supposed to take the big ones (8x140mm) and shake the tank like a cocktail for hours (or until your arms fall off), but small ones and rock gently like a baby. Some suggest to add fuel (sounds a bit dangerous) or or petroleum, but in general the mechanical stress caused by the screws sounds less to me compared to blasting.
But as Karl and now Rolf have stated...if your tank has holes caused by rust then either way it will leak after derusting, no matter which way you choose (by chemicals or mechanical)...and neither coating nor chrome nor paint will be able to stop those leaks...depending on the size of the holes and the area size affected it's either welding (big areas, pretty tricky as the danger is that welding a patch might only burn more holes right beside it) or soldering....
And as Rolf has emphasized it's better to face the full truth early in the process instead of handling the tank too gently only to find out it's leaking fuel like a sieve after painting or when the first strokes of the engine shake the whole bike...
Rolf finished his post with: not seeing and not noticing it doesn't mean "it's not there"
Best regards, Tassilo
@Tassilo
Danke fürs übersetzen. :juhuu:
@Bjarke
The most cemical working stoff in Pikaplus must be "Phosphorseure". Its write on the Etikett.
Best regarts from a Swiss-German in englisch. (Dont laugh about my englisch :-\\)
Christian
Hi Christian.
So PikaPlus is a kind of turbo-charged Coke Zero for our bikes.... ;D
Thanks&best regards, Tassilo
Hi
Tassilo:
I didn´t saw the flags in the corner.
you are not supposed to take the big ones (8x140mm) and shake the tank like a cocktail for hours (or until your arms fall off), :)
No I wouldn ´t do that! I havent´t found any holes yet, but maybe there is some anyway. I haven´t controlled it with petrol, but that would probably be a good way to find out.
Rolf: Actually it´s not a BMW tank but a DKW and it´s chromed all over the outer surface so I would prefer NOT to destroy that chrome. Glasspearl blasting is a good idea! N(icht sehen und merken heisst nicht "es ist nicht da" ) Yes you are absolutely right!
Karl:
With your result in mind, maybe I shouldn´t use chemistry- or at least be very carefull. Many holes after chemistry doesn´t sound like a happy ending! The Pikaplus is probably also a powerfull product because of the phosfor acid.
ch4:
Dein english ist ok, danke für "Phosphorseure" information.
-----
I have talked to a guy who sells a product that is called "Tank Cure". I contains of a cleaner, a Rust Remover, and a Sealer. He also says that you screws together with the Rust Remover is the best way to get rid of rust. The Sealer can close holes ( small ones I suppose), and should be very effective.
http://www.tankcure.com/Duits/voorbehandeldl.html Does anyone knows about these products?? In Denmark it cost about 45 E for these 3 products toghether (Crazy!!)
Thanks to all of you
hi bjarke!
I used "Ammon Tanksiegel creme rot". It's good stuff...
Hi
I have just google´d and Ammon looks good, and more cheap than the "Tank Cure" (only for 1 tank)
Thanks
No sealer can close holes!!
I give up, do what you (and the sealer dealer) like ::)
Mr Gehrke! I agree with you, but I didn't mention the word "holes"...
Okay I get your point Rolf.. I haven´t tried anything like this before so I don´t know wether its correct or not
But why can´t it close small holes?? If the sealer is non-permeable (nicht durchlässig) for petrol, then petrol can go through the surface and run out.
I have no technical knowledge of this other than my chemistry from hischool :)
Bjarke
@ Bjarke:
because you'll never be sure if it is just ONE hole and how this hole appeared. In case a small hole was accidentally made (e.g. a sharp stone or screw ... whatever) a sealer will sure close this hole ... for a while. But what Rolf means:
- in case this hole is made by RUST > this means the walls of your tank are tooooo weak! You can close all existing holes with your sealer but because of the wall-weakness NEW ONES will appear soon (because of vibrations > small cracks).
My experience:
- I used POR 15 tank sealer. It is some kind of aluminium enamel that covers the surface of your tank with a solid silvercolored coat. But this coat is inelastic (stiff), so cracks and new holes GO THROUGH the tank sealer and the fuel dissolves your tank painint and linning. You won't believe me how funny a tank looks like when it starts getting "bubbles" (large as tennis balls), full of fuel! :\'(
maybe (!) it would help using a FLEXIBLE, rubberlike tank sealer, which is resistent to vibrations (and thus to crakcs). I know a sealer called "KREEM WEISS" and "KREEM ROT" (white / red). The difference between them is: the WHITE one makes an ELASTIC cover, the RED one a STIFF one. But I never used it 'til now...
Look here: http://www.ammon-technik.de
Kind regards,
Karl
I used battery (phosphoric) acid on in my R60 tank 2 years ago. The metal was in very good condition and I save the original paint ot the outside. It stripped the old flaking coating off very quickly, 15-20 minutes. I set the tank in different positions to allow the acid to sit for a short period of time and then completely rinsed with water. By using a strong acid it did not need to be in the tank for long.
I then used POR 15 to seal the tank. It has held up very well, but an R60 vibrates much less than an Einzylinder.
Garnet A(cid) King :rip:
Zitat von: Karl am 11 Januar 2007, 01:19:20
maybe (!) it would help using a FLEXIBLE, rubberlike tank sealer, which is resistent to vibrations (and thus to crakcs). I know a sealer called "KREEM WEISS" and "KREEM ROT" (white / red). The difference between them is: the WHITE one makes an ELASTIC cover, the RED one a STIFF one. But I never used it 'til now...
Look here: http://www.ammon-technik.de
Kind regards,
Karl
Karl: NO!
Ok, it was all in english, but....we always have told about these flexible coat ::) ( also when you asked for your tank, years ago!). Ok, I know POR was hard, but we always talk about (zumindest ich) über flexible Lösungen. I think that "hard" coating couln't seal anything is common sense (I hope!)
Where did you get the Info that Kreem rot was stiff?
"Kautschukartig" means stiff?
So Karl, nach 2057x "OM" bin ich auch schon ruhiger,
kannst du nicht mal die Umfrage des Jahres starten (damit dieses Scheißthema endlich mal abschliessend abgehakt werden kann):
Wer hatte einen porösen Tank mit Löchern/Rissen etc und hat ihn langfristig (also länger las 1 Jahr) mit irgendwelchen Innenbeschichtungen ( ausschließlich!!) dicht bekommen?
1. war nach der Behandlung dicht, keine weiter Maßnahmen
2. war dicht, habe aber noch zusätzliche Maßnahmen (z.B. löten, Glasfaser etc) getroffen
3. war nicht dicht danach
Bjarke, I don't know exactly why it doesn't seal, but I know that it doesn't seal... ask anyone with cracks (hallo Kruemel) or holes (which is the same for the question: seal it or not )...none has success.
Garnet, as i understand you right : "my tank was in good condition", so you havn't to seal your tank (and to say it for the 10000. time, it wasn't possible to seal it with POR or something else... that was not for you, Garnet ;D ).
Rolf V(ery, very tired)
@ Rolf: Okay, lets talk german:
Schau mal hier:
KREEM WEISS:
"... Das Erzeugnis vulkanisiert bei einer Umgebungstemperatur von +10 bis maximal +80° C und ergibt eine kautschukartige, glatte und elastische, weisse Oberfläche..." (Zitat Beschreibung Ammon (http://www.ammon-technik.de/Kreemweiss.htm))
KREEM ROT:
"... Das Erzeugnis vulkanisiert bei einer Umgebungstemperatur von -5 bis +50° und ergibt eine kautschukartige, glatte und feste rote Oberfläche." (Zitat Beschreibung Ammon (http://www.ammon-technik.de/Kreemrot.htm))
Aufmerksam wurde ich auf diesen Unterschied, als ich von einem Vereinskollegen mal ein Produktdatenblatt zu Kreem Weiss/Rot bekommen hatte. Demzufolge unterscheiden sich Weiss und Rot einerseits durch die Temperatur-Einsatzbereiche als auch in ihrem Aufbau (elastisch vs fest)!
Ich habe auch nie über "flexible" Tankversiegelungen gesprochen, da meine Erfahrungen ausschliesslich auf starrem POR15 EMAILLE-LACK basieren.
Aber ich verstehe grad echt nicht wo das Problem liegt. ICH GEB DIR DOCH RECHT, ROLF! Ein poröser Tank mit zu schwacher Wandstruktur ist DURCH NICHTS dicht zu bekommen. Mein Vorschlag oben war nur eine Überlegung (siehe: "maybe (!) it would help...")
Gruss,
Karl
Ok, um es kurz zu machen...ich habe bei mir Kreem Rot drin...es ist elastisch...eben Kautschukartig..mag angehen das das weisse zeugs noch elastischer ist und immer wieder nachfliesst , was weiß ich..
Aber starte doch bitte mal die Umfrage (ich bin zu doof dafür)
Peace Bruder
@ Rolf:
Mhmmm - nein, du bist nicht zu doof; man kann eine Umfrage nur in einem neuen Thema öffnen (es sei denn die Forensoftware hat sich mit dem letzten Update soo stark geändert und das funzt jetzt auch mitten im Thema > nicht dass ich wüsste).
Also: Umfrage = neues Thema starten.
Gruss,
Karl
das " Mhmmm" war frech! ;D
Na gut , ich versuche es mal...dann wird sich ja rausstellen ob das "Mhmm" wirklich frech war (Gott hilf!)
Hi Rolf!
Nein, ich habe keine Risse oder Löcher im Tank... Ich hatte damals geschrieben, das eine Beschichtung (kurzfristig) einen Riß dichten kann jedoch langfristig der Tank starken Mechanischen Vibrationen ausgesetzt ist und keine nachträglich aufgebrachte Beschichtung die gerade an den Knotenpunkten extremen Schwingen aushält. Wenn man die Schingungen unserer Einzylinder am Rahmen messen würde wäre das Arbeitsschutzrechtlich bestimmt eine Maschine, die man nicht mehr als 5 Miniten in der Stunde bedienen dürfte ;-)
gruss, krueme k(larheit)
Zitat von: rolf am 11 Januar 2007, 11:20:01
das " Mhmmm" war frech!
:-* ;) ;D
ZitatI used battery (phosphoric) acid
No again! ;D (though not very important)
Battery acid is sufuric acid, not phosphoric. It does not build up this black korrosion inhibiting phosphate coating ("Brünierung").
Anselm, ich danke dir für dein "though not very important"!
:-* *knicks*
@ Anslem
You are right, wrong acid. It cleaned to bare metal with no covering.
@ Rolf
You to are right... I coated my tank, I did not seal it.
Greetings
Garnet T(oo) much Acid :galgen:
Karl:
Thanks for the explaining. Now I understand what Rolf meant about why sealer can´t close holes permanently. And yes an Einzylinder vibrates a lot.
I don´t know if there is any holes in my tank, so maybe I don´t have a problem in the end.
But I will try to remove the rust with acid and screws: Afterwards I must see how the condition of the tank walls are, to find out what to do.
Thanks to all of you, it was something of a subject!
Bjarke
Hello Bjarke.
To add to the confusion( ;))...I had a small discussion with Rolf in another thread and we discussed another approach to the tank handling.
If you find your tank still hole-free then you can either coat it (with a free choice of products, "Kreem weiß" seems to be more on the flexible side, "Kreem rot" like POR15 is reported to create a more "stiff" coating) or you can do what Rolf did to one of his tanks: leave it derusted without coating and just add a sip of oil to the gas every now and then. Two-stroke machines that have no separate oil tank and thus keep the oil-gas mixture in the main tank seem to have their tanks in much better condition rust-wise... so this idea sounds quite sensible.
As my own bike's tank (R25/3) will cause a tremendous amount of work to have it coated properly (with all the tubes and stuff going through or protruding into it) I am considering to follow this method. My bike will have to stay in the "cold" during winter time so I will empty the tank every autumn to avoid long inactive periods with watery fuel....
Best regards, Tassilo
Hi
Yes the subject did became a little confusing :) I have also a 25/3 and you are right, it could maybe be hard to get such a tank proberly coated.
The tank I have the rust in, is a DKW and that is a two-stroke so there will be oil in the gas. But the tank have been lying in a garage since 1965.
My mom says ;D that phosfor acid would be the best chemical product to remove the rust with in the tank. Phosfor acid won´t damage the metal. The solution of acid should be about 1-3 %. So instead of bying some expensive product I will just get som phosfor acid and mix the solution my self.
And to Karl:
Phosfor acid in a weak solution will not damage the tank walls. Salpetersäure (HNO3) is a much more strong acid and it would on the opposite hand eat the tank walls (Salpetersäure "eats" iron, but not steel) So HNO3 is good agains unwanted material on steel.
Thanks to all of you, it was very helpfull with all the many answers!
Bjarke
Hi Bjarke.
Zitat von: korremann am 12 Januar 2007, 16:23:28
...My mom says ;D that phosfor acid would be the best chemical product to remove the rust with in the tank. Phosfor acid won´t damage the metal. The solution of acid should be about 1-3 %. So instead of bying some expensive product I will just get som phosfor acid and mix the solution my self...
Try using Coke after applying the screws (less than 1%, but reported to be working in several other forums as well)...easiest to obtain in my eyes...
And if it didn't work with the first bottle you have a brilliant excuse to empty the rest into your body ;D
Best regards, Tassilo
Hi
Yes that would be a good idea, but it´s pretty easy to get phosfor acid. Yesterday I bought a product wich contains 5 % phosfor acid, and it only cost about 1,5 euro
Bjarke
Skâl!
G'day, happy new year!
With regard to Phosphoric Acid, its used in aviation for aluminium preparation, sold here by Turco as "WO1". Some caution has to be used when using it as a de-rusting chemical:
1. It takes a couple of hours to start working, afterwhich (I think Karl mentioned) heavy rusted parts will have all rust removed, potentially leaving holes.
2. It can be quite hard to rinse off and if rinsed directly in water the surface sometimes oxidises instantly. I use white spirits.
3. The surface can turn a quite dark colour (Rolf - can you elaborate, is this actually a phosphate coating?).
See the examples below - recently I needed to de-rust these springs (old Harley, left - before, right - after). About 6 hours in the acid and they were great. In this case the dark finish was a bonus as they are supposed to have a manganese phosphate finish and I didn't want to put the springs through that process.
Dave.
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldtimerworkshop.com%2Fboards%2Fsprings_01.jpg&hash=68f6274af9c0dd57bd1515621168fadc6c2e66c8)
Hi Dave,
thank you for the information about that Turco WO1 :applaus:
But i think, there will be no chance to buy this acid in Germany.
I found this statement in a nederlands Porsche 356 Forum :
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:22 pm
Kun je trouwens bestellen bij Turco, groothandel in chemicaliën, zitten in de buurt van Leusden, Kleinste verpakking 20L.
_________________
Groeten, Knick
What about Fertan ? I think, it will do the job as well as your choice.
Regards, mek
hallo Dave,
it is near by "phosphating". As I know for "real" phosphate coating there must be used a little (!) more than only phosphoric-acid... but i am not a chemican...so i 'm not sure, but it was now (a little bit) "rust-save".
Rolf
Info:
- The POR15 "Tank Sealer Kit" contains such a liquid / rust transformer, which creates such a black surface.
I tested it last year and was wondering about the black surface, after I de-rusted the "number plate" of my bike.
Greetings,
Karl
Just adding some pictures for reference:
I recently set to work on my tank with phosphoric acid (WO1, see my previous post (http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/index.php?topic=3166.msg32251#msg32251)). The right knee pad flange had a lot of corrosion, this photo shows the conversion process almost complete, some of the rust is still present.
Unfortunately I'll have to cut the side out of the tank as this is too badly gone, at least it makes it easier to spot weld a new flange on :)
What I like about the acid method is at least you know exactly the state of your tank, ie no rust but lots of repair work to do!
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldtimerworkshop.com%2Fboards%2FTank_070505_01.jpg&hash=bdd640840b0c731dce95aaabeea00d2ea0de061b)
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldtimerworkshop.com%2Fboards%2FTank_070505_02.jpg&hash=6ccc73bb88e5ba278ea147b3d98981dde73f2e83)
Another example of an acid cleaned part - rear mudguard before and after.
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldtimerworkshop.com%2Fboards%2FMudguard_Rear_09.jpg&hash=cafd3505d0cd301c834c7c0e600fa68230bba422)
(https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldtimerworkshop.com%2Fboards%2FMudguard_Rear_14.jpg&hash=b4ee2d3f2478ce4699fbb830caff56a2110131ca)
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