Engine/Frame Numbers for the R4

Begonnen von Kurt in S.A., 14 Mai 2020, 14:55:40

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Kurt in S.A.

Not really a technical question, but something that's been bugging me for a while.  I'd like some insight on the numbering system used for the R4 series.  On some sources I've seen, the engine numbers are listed as being from 80001 to 95280.  But the chassis numbers are listed from P80001 to P97700 as well as P1001 to P10437.

That's a bit unusual to have a "P" in front of a number...haven't seen that used before.  Any reason?  Also, the total engines appear to be 15280 assuming consecutive numbers.  But looking at the chassis numbers, there are much more than that for chassis, again assuming that every intervening number was used.

Thoughts?  Are there official BMW archival info somewhere on production numbers for the R4...what about all models?

Kurt
Kurt in S.A.

Kurt in S.A.

Kurt in S.A.

rolf

#1
"P" is for Presstahlrahmen (frame of pressed steel)
https://cms.bmw-einzylinder.de/index.php/historisches/bmw-seriennummern.html
they built more engines than chassis.....for exchange, you will  have more damaged engines than chassis

Kurt in S.A.

Thanks.  Not much details on the chassis number other than a beginning number and then "continuously".  Check out the beginning number for the Series 3 in the picture from the book.  Do you suppose that number should be 82839 and not 82893?  Possibly a print error?

Kurt
Kurt in S.A.

rolf

#3
ääähhh...the number is 82839 and follows the last number of serie 2

Jollyjester

Good Morning All

Often the frames were universal across the range, as in R5 / R6 , one frame fits all. P is for pressed Steel Frame.

I have R12 SC ( Single Carb ,R12 DC ( duel Carb ). R17, All pressed Steel. The R51 engine fits into an R5 frame. ( I am processing one at the moment), in my Archive of BMW's sold in G.B 1935 - 39, 217 units.

Some BMW's were sold here in the early 30's but these were specific imports, it is not known how many, perhaps a hand full, there are no knownrecords of these. T

BMW's from mid 1935 were all imported by AFN ltd ( Frazer Nash Cars ) Falcon works, London Rd. Isleworth , Middlesex. AFN continued to import and sell BMWs post War up to March 1963, ( bought the last new BMW they sold, an R50S).

But by then BMW had set up their own import line, on the Back of the Isetta Bubble Cars. at Portslade near Brighton, and taking on official Dealers in the UK. Initally there were perhaps 6

If you email, info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com.

Give your name and address, the BMW model  & both numbers, ( engine / frame) you will be given a Build Date and maybe a Delivery Date and the Dealer. That is Free Of Charge.

An official Date Letter will cost you Euro 50.00.

Do not trust a Typenscheild. These can be purchased on eBay, I have seem many that are obviously forged, or over stamped

As Archivist for The BMW Club UK & Ireland. I deal with BMW's in the range 1930 - 2010, perhaps 80 a year 

The Archive in Moosacher Str, Munchen, is on short time working, 2 people deal with this, one at home the other in the office, turn and turn about.

No Pre War singles were import or sold in Britain. An R35 sent over for evaluation, but returned as ' Gutless' There a many BMW R35's here now, some as early as 1950, displaying the Blue / White Badge, which  'fools' the unwary.

40 miles on the R25 yesterday, 'We are allowed out of the cage now) for exercise. R25 on Fenland roads is exercise, you are out of the saddle more than in it

Robert


Kurt in S.A.

If "P" was used to represent a pressed steel frame, why wasn't that used on other models which also had pressed steel frames at the time?  I don't recall seeing this sort of thing on the twin cylinder bikes.

Kurt
Kurt in S.A.

rolf

I also don`t know why only for the singles....but it was so

Jollyjester

Good Morning All

The letter "P" was used on the twins, here are examples, from the original sales records

R12DC    P54x
R17    P140x
R12SC    P518x
Remember DC = Duel Carb
SC = single carb

Only 5 singles were sold in the period August 1939, rather unfortunate for the owners. They were all model R23, the Frames all start 111xxx. all were sold by the Company King's of Oxford, or their Branches  in Manchester
King' were trading into the 1970's possibly later.  The 'Owner' of the company was 'Stan' ( Stanley ) Hailwood, His son 'Mike' did very well riding for MV Agusta and Honda. On the World GP circuit and the Isle Of Man TT course.

He as awarded the Medal, The George Cross, the civilian equivalent of the Gantry Military Medal , The Victoria Cross for requeuing someone from a 'burning vehicle

He 'lost his life' when a Artic Vehicle turned right in front of him without signaling. He sadly  went under.

On a lighter note, a true story about Kings of Oxford.

My Father and I were traveling from Sussex to Oxfordshire ( Horsham to Enstone ) if you wans to look it up, about 1961, Dad on the pillion. we were mounted on a Classic Road Burner, a 1938 Triumph Speed Twin.

Thrashing round the Oxford By Pass, the engine noise changed ???, eventually we had to stop at traffic lights.

Car pulled up behind us and the Driver ran down the road to us, holding a silencer. Gave it to my Dad, and said, 'It fell of miles back up the road, but, we could not Catch You.

so we diverted in to Oxford, went to Kings and they refitted it. The cost was a  'Whitworth Thread Nut and Bold ) 2/6 pence . = today 12.5p.

Golden Days . I was aged about 19

Robert

Heiko

Ariel motorcycles... upon which the sun never sets.

cledrera

Du bist im Recht; nun sieh zu, wie du da wieder heraus kommst. (v. Chamisso)
Lieber Einzylinder als zwei Fallschirme (v. mir)

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