Noice from oilpan

Begonnen von Pederkr, 29 Juni 2019, 16:26:13

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Pederkr

Today I finished putting my engine together again. Problems with the black deposits on the piston are due to poor compression and cold combustion of gasoline. Now the engine is build with new bearings, new crankshaft with the right piston height. The engine starts fine and pulls well, but now that all the noises are away from the crankshaft valves and push rods, I can hear a click click sound from the oilpan. It sounds like something can hit when the connecting rod is at the bottom. I also had this sound before I switched.

Good suggestions for troubleshooting are requested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3OuOOi2VGI&fbclid=IwAR24OZddQXIZa0mGLqq7hgifnSyyyMQskCncOl04yjJS_zez5-r1EdzmQsU







Pederkr


OldsCool!

Sure that it's not from the gearbox? It tends to rattle without load...
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

berndr253

If you use a crank-shaft with 72 mm stroke it could be, that the bearing of the connecting rod is touching the shaft of the oil pump.

Bernd
Leben und Leben lassen

Pederkr

Same Noise whit old Crankshaft

This is a sound recording taken directly under the oil pump. Unfortunately, I do not have time to separate it before the weekend

4Taktix

Moin Peder,
did you measure/check the pinch-point clearance with the new piston and crankshaft ?

Cheers,
Sascha
Think outside the box !

Pederkr

Zitat von: 4Taktix am 01 Juli 2019, 19:53:15
Moin Peder,
did you measure/check the pinch-point clearance with the new piston and crankshaft ?

Cheers,
Sascha

pinch-point im not sure what this is ????

Heiko

#6
I think Sascha means that there is maybe not enough clearance between the bottom of the piston and the crankshaft in the lower dead center.


Heiko
Ariel motorcycles... upon which the sun never sets.

4Taktix

no, I meant the gap between the outer, flat brim of the piston, and the according flat brim of the combustion-chamber in the head. -> "Quetschkante"
In other words: Make sure that the piston can't touch the head by no means !  There should be 1,2 to 1,5mm gap at the most narrow spot.
I thought that you might have taken out gaskets to increase combustion with your wrong crankshaft and flipped Isetta-piston, or maybe even milled the sealing-
areas for that reason. And that you now might have too less available height, with the correct crank and piston.
Solution would be to apply a thicker bottom-end-gasket -> available in various thicknesses at Ulis e.g..
Just a thought. I can imagine that it might apear, as if the resulting noise comes from the oil-pan-area.

Regards,
Sascha
Think outside the box !

Heiko

So i did not understand it either Peter...  ;D
Ariel motorcycles... upon which the sun never sets.

4Taktix

But your comment points out another good aspect to check  ;D
Think outside the box !

Pederkr

Zitat von: 4Taktix am 01 Juli 2019, 22:16:20
no, I meant the gap between the outer, flat brim of the piston, and the according flat brim of the combustion-chamber in the head. -> "Quetschkante"
In other words: Make sure that the piston can't touch the head by no means !  There should be 1,2 to 1,5mm gap at the most narrow spot.
I thought that you might have taken out gaskets to increase combustion with your wrong crankshaft and flipped Isetta-piston, or maybe even milled the sealing-
areas for that reason. And that you now might have too less available height, with the correct crank and piston.
Solution would be to apply a thicker bottom-end-gasket -> available in various thicknesses at Ulis e.g..
Just a thought. I can imagine that it might apear, as if the resulting noise comes from the oil-pan-area.

Regards,
Sascha

Ah now i know what you are talking abouth. The ring in the top of the cylinder is in Danish/English called a "fire ring" Height is 3,4 m/m should be 4 m/m but its okay.
Space from top spot of the skirt of the piston to top of fire ring is 1,8 m/m.
When i had the old piston it was 4,2 m/m so to low compression and yes i still had the same "klank klank" noice when the crank is turning to the bottom possition whit the old crank shaft. The noise is only to hear when engine is ideling.

Another reason was that center points of the crank pin was 122 m/m  It should be 125 m/m for R 26 120 m/m for R 27. so why 122 m/m.
Answer the crank pin was actualy for a Duerkorpf scooter.

So sometime along the past a TRACTOR mechanic has been to close to my engine.

Now the only thing i havent checkt, as not thinking something should be wrong, is the space between crankshaft and the oil stainer in the oilpan, or if any item has been forgotten inside.

More information will folow.  :schrauber: :kaffee: :prost:

Pederkr

#11
Noting wrong whit the bottom of engine. I did had a little noise from the oil pump but not enough to make the "clank clank" noise.

Tomorrow i will check the cylinder head. The head gasket i am using is only 0,75 m/m. If some one has tampert whit the messurements in the head/firering i must try to fit a ticker gasket to see if the noise dissapere.

Peder (still learning)

Pederkr

I think i got it. less noise.
Made a new head gasket of asbest material, 2 m/m ticknes and it is mutch more quiet now.

Fire ring 3,4 m/m  ( - 0,6 m/m
Reses on cylinder head 3 m/m should be 3,5 ( - 0,5 m/m )
Total minus 1,1 m/m + gasket 0,75 m/m = 1,85 m/m
New gasket 2 m/m  difference from new standar +0,15 m/m
That wil not do any different for the preformance

Now testrun 100 km and the re-tighten moment

And yes my gearboks is also noisy I will put cotton in my ears.  :thumbup:


Pederkr

Everything has gone fine, almost no unnatural noise from the engine. however, I can hear a bit from the push rod lifts. But I have some doubts. I can read that they are available in different sizes. So is it supposed to peel it out and measure them, and if there are oversizes, then you also have to buy new tubes in oversize ??

Alles ist gut gelaufen, fast keine unnatürlichen Geräusche vom Motor. Ich kann jedoch etwas von den Schubstangenliften hören. Aber ich habe einige Zweifel. Ich kann lesen, dass sie in verschiedenen Größen erhältlich sind. Soll es sie also abziehen und ausmessen, und wenn es Übergrößen gibt, muss man auch neue Röhren in Übergröße kaufen

Peder

4Taktix

Moin Peder,
you only have to buy the appropriate oversize lifter, then mill or grind the guide/tube accordingly. Consider the required play.
To decide, which oversize you need, I'd recommend to first measure the biggest inner diameter in the tube, should be smaller then the oversize minus play.
They wear out uneven.

Cheers,
Sascha
Think outside the box !

Pederkr

Coooooool

This must be a winter project, the rest of the season i am driving  :juhuu:

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