R2 setting ignition

Begonnen von dequincey, 23 Mai 2017, 17:33:52

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Stefan

The evil is always and everywhere!

Stefan


The evil is always and everywhere!

mekgyver

@ Tino, diese akademischen Spielchen habe ich zu genüge gehabt, bin sozusagen satt.
Ich suchte nach einer einfachen Möglichkeit zur Berechnung.

Vielen Dank an Stefan  :applaus: da sind ja noch viel mehr Sachen zu sehen ...

Gruß mek  :schrauber:
... 73er-Gang

dequincey

Zitat von: Dappsull am 28 Mai 2017, 07:06:07
Oh, and what is a 'red light' - some LED device?

yes, a LED red light, worked only when i connected it reverse
plus multimeter was Reading -6 volts

can the bike engine run ? lights, and horn worked well
if once a man indulges himself in m.

Dappsull

Why don't you swap the battery connectors?

PS: what does 'once a man indulges himself in m.' refer to ;^) ?

dequincey

#34
Zitat von: Dappsull am 29 Mai 2017, 08:04:27
Why don't you swap the battery connectors?

PS: what does 'once a man indulges himself in m.' refer to ;^) ?

swapping bat connectors worries me, but i will do so, probably next weekend

i am getting the necessary tools to carry on the work, such as a piston stopper, trying also to get a larger DTI arm to reach piston top through the spark plug hole,....

i will also print an angle disk and place it in a CD disk

lots of thing to prepare before

this weekend was fruitful to read all the documents, and learn about the theory, also set point´s gap correctly to 0,3 /0,5 mm (yeah 0,3 without manual advance is 0,5 with manual advance at máximum

i prepared a very freaky installation of an ammeter to check battery charging (will show you now)

p.s. "what does 'once a man indulges himself in m.' refer to ;^) ?"
well captured, Dappsull, is english writer Th.de quincey most famous sentence:

"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. Once begun upon this downward path, you never know where you are to stop. Many a man has dated his ruin from some murder or other that perhaps he thought little of at the time. Murder Considered as One of the Fine Arts (1827)."

i love the apparently absurd progression of things in his thinking

if once a man indulges himself in m.

dequincey

#35
ok so the AMMETER installation

i was visiting the Essen motor show and found a Little nice object, a "Charging/discharging" gauge made in france in the 30-ies

it is essentially an ammeter (to measure Amps), so well what can i do in the R2 ? that was the question, was it posible to check when the batt is being charged or not ?

i went searching for a Bosch similar device and found nothing

i ended up in the UK, found this lovely patina ammeter from the 40-ies

then the question was how to prepare and where to install, so to make a long story short here you are the pics, any comments adn questions are welcome

it worked well :-) seems that the lichtmaschine ist kaputt :-(

regards



if once a man indulges himself in m.

Dappsull

Seems you're getting serious ;^).
Anyway, in terms of battery hook-up: can you check, if the '-' connector goes to chassis (which I assume should be the case)? But only then any measurement makes sense of course. Horn and lights are independed from polarity, but neither are the generator nor the regulator, even the ignition to a certain extend.
You are well equipped, so you can also follow up on resistances once you have acces to the generator and the regulator.

NB: interesting to get to know that ignition timing advance is changed by different point distance settings. An obvious way, but I never came across such a procedure (but I have of course only the super modern 1966 BMW).

Good luck!

Tino

Did you flashed/polarized the generator?
Tino
Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

Tino

Zitat von: mekgyver am 29 Mai 2017, 01:24:47
@ Tino, diese akademischen Spielchen habe ich zu genüge gehabt, bin sozusagen satt.
Ich suchte nach einer einfachen Möglichkeit zur Berechnung.


Ich bringe Leuten lieber das Angeln bei, statt sie mit Fischen zu füttern  ;)
Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

dequincey

 :prost:
Zitat von: Tino am 29 Mai 2017, 13:46:47
Did you flashed/polarized the generator?
Tino

dear Tino,
what do you mean ?
i do not understand
grussen
if once a man indulges himself in m.

Tino

Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

bwprice100

My 2 cents.

You can calculate the current by measuring the voltage drop across a known resistance, no voltage drop the likely no current flow. The current can the be calculated using Ohms law.
Most current meters measure voltage drop and display current as result of Ohms law.

Brian

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


dequincey

Zitat von: Tino am 29 Mai 2017, 15:17:35
http://www.vw-resource.com/alternator_generator.html#polar

http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/polarising-a-dynamo.php

Tino

dear tino. this is extremely interesting, never seen this before, thank you so much for this lesson

but, my regulator is integrated inside the dynamo, so it will be difficult to follow this procedure:

"To polarize a Bosch or other series field dynamo for negative earth

Disconnect the wires from the dynamo. Run a wire from the earthed (negative) terminal of the battery and hold it onto the DF terminal on the dynamo. Run another wire from the positive terminal of the battery and "flash" it onto the D+/61 terminal on the dynamo until a small blue spark can be seen.

The dynamos field is now polarized for negative earth and ready to safely connect to an electronic regulator."

if you can advise on how to proceed i would be very grateful

if once a man indulges himself in m.

rolf

Do you have a "F" Regler?

Tino

Usually it should be a Bosch F-Regler.
http://emw-r35.de/det/bosch_f_regler.gif
http://nsu-superlux.vogo.org/assets/images/Reglerk.jpg

In this case you have to hot-wire the cut-out (Rückstromschalter). Just for a split second.
For that remove the cover on the back of the generator.
Tino
Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

dequincey

Zitat von: rolf am 30 Mai 2017, 08:25:17
Do you have a "F" Regler?

i will look inside the generator, will do in the next days, thank you


Zitat von: Tino am 30 Mai 2017, 08:51:41
Usually it should be a Bosch F-Regler.
http://emw-r35.de/det/bosch_f_regler.gif
http://nsu-superlux.vogo.org/assets/images/Reglerk.jpg

In this case you have to hot-wire the cut-out (Rückstromschalter). Just for a split second.
For that remove the cover on the back of the generator.
Tino


thank you, Tino, that is usefull information,

i beg your patience, hot-wire the cut-out ?

ok, i need help to identify the cut-out, and also to know what is to hot-wire, and how to do it, it seems that i have no idea of what you are talking about, sorry

i will open the regulator and see what is inside first, i will take some pictures and come back here

MFG


if once a man indulges himself in m.

Tino

hot-wire = short circuit

Tino
Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

dequincey

Zitat von: Tino am 31 Mai 2017, 07:38:12
hot-wire = short circuit

Tino

Dear tino, will come back to this, later, vielen danke
if once a man indulges himself in m.

dequincey

so here i am, preparing the tools for this setting next weekend

so fa i have prepared:

a piston stopper, and a angle disk
if once a man indulges himself in m.

Tino

Hi, better put the degree wheel on the crankshaft.
When the crankshaft makes one turn the camshaft makes only a half  ;)
Also the chain has to much backlash for a proper result.
This could cause several degrees deviation to the crankshaft.
Tino
Gott fragte die Steine: "Wollt ihr Starrrahmenfahrer werden?"
Verängstigt antworteten die Steine:"Nein,dafür sind wir nicht hart genug."

dequincey

Zitat von: Tino am 01 Juni 2017, 20:07:53
Hi, better put the degree wheel on the crankshaft.
When the crankshaft makes one turn the camshaft makes only a half  ;)
Also the chain has to much backlash for a proper result.
This could cause several degrees deviation to the crankshaft.
Tino

oh, Tino, you are right ! ....scheisse ! (sorry)  :(
oh i can do nothing with this, there is no way to fix it to the crankshaft !!!

i will use only the piston stop, then

thank you so much
if once a man indulges himself in m.

dequincey

#51
so i did it yesterday, and it was a success

PREPARATION:
first i changed the battery poles, that were mistaken, and then checked the polarity in the coil, now terminal 15 is positive and 1 is negative, alles in ordnung !

then i rechecked the points gap: is 0,3mm without advance and 0,5mm when maximum advance

then checked for TDC using a plastic rod throught the spark plug hole, it was a bit empirical thoug, but i was able to make a painted mark in the flywheel, so i knew where i was

then using my other engine that is disassembled i set the piston stopper at 9,5mm: i removed the cyl head and place the piston at 9,5mm BTDC, then i adjusted the piston stopper accordingly

PROCESS:

i went to the motorcycle and placed the piston stopper in place in the running engine

i slowly moved the piston until it stopped, i made a mark in the flywheel for a 9,5mm BTDC

using my 6 volts red light (a diode, so it has polarity) i connected it: black cable to ground and positive to the condenser terminal in the ignition module (at last that now polarity is correct:_)

placed the lever in the handlebar at maximum advance, so ignition module is set at max advance (remember that this is moving the points anti-clock wise)

then using the cable adjuster of the ignition module i tuned the position of maximum advance so the red light (and thus the spark) was just switched on in that position of the crankshaft (9,5mm BTDC)

CHECKS:
once done i removed the piston stop and rechecked:

1- with maximum advance i checked that the red light just switches ON (spark firing) when passing through the 9,5mm mark in the flywheel

2- now i put no advance with the lever in the handlebar

3- i checked when the spark is produced in this condition, and i found that spark ignites AFTER TDC !!! only a few degrees but ATDC, surprising !

ENJOYEMENT
and finally i started the engine, wow, so loovely !

no knocking at all, started very well, i assume also new points and new condenser where part of it !

AKNOWLEDGEMENTS
thank you all very very much, now i understand my motorcycle (it has been 10 years ;-))


...it will continue ...
if once a man indulges himself in m.

Dappsull

Congrats amigo!

It was a bit the Th.de Quincey approach: start with connecting the battery properly (start with murder....) and work down from there ;^)

Cheers!

dequincey

thank you Dappsull

Look at how it looks like, sorry for lack of clarity of the explanation



if once a man indulges himself in m.

Dappsull

Nice videos.
Now does it run properly and you can take it out for a ride?

Have fun!

dequincey

Zitat von: Dappsull am 05 Juni 2017, 12:47:58
Nice videos.
Now does it run properly and you can take it out for a ride?

Have fun!

thank you
not yet, now i must deal with the carburettor

step by step

thank you
if once a man indulges himself in m.

dequincey

hello
i am back

there is a warning that this post is more than 120 days old, but it is mine, so i need to respond because i have good news
if once a man indulges himself in m.

dequincey

first thing is the carburetor thing, ok i am still dealing with my new bing carb, i still dont have the time and the guts to plug back the original fischer amal

ok, you might remember that i learnt all those good things about the ignition setup with your great help, and then it was time for setting carb and mixture and iddle, but, no way, too high revs and no way to set iddle,...

...the point was finally clear, i made a mistake with the setting of the accel position so the cable was always pulling a bit and the bell was always 5mm open, yes, nice one, right?

o so i fixed it and i have a nice video to prove my smoooth iddle, please do tell if you think is too low, i am still dealing with the transition, but i am pointing in a good direction IMHO

nice thing is that i have been able to make the smoky exhaust clean now, so mixture seems good,...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n91ZN-ejBnY&sns=em






if once a man indulges himself in m.

rolf

It isn't too low.....good idle....if you will drive....for show it could be lower (many people do it so), but that wasn't good for accelering and engine (oil pump)

Dappsull

Sounds pretty cool - congrats!

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