R25/3 -54 will not charge...damned red light!

Begonnen von FelixM, 12 Juli 2021, 11:26:14

« vorheriges - nächstes »

0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast betrachten dieses Thema.

FelixM

Hi folks! Swedish user here. Although I understand som german, english is easier for me. However, dont hesitate to use german terms as well...

Problem: Last summer on a longer drive the engine died. Empty battery. I therefore replaced some ignition parts as well. (Spark plug, ignition coil, breaker, carbons, ignition cable, condensor, battery. And it started! And runs. But wont charge! Red light shines bright and the voltade stays at 6,25 something when revving.

I therefore cleaned stator and rotor, Electronic regulator from Uli's.
Still wont charge...Checked connections from battery to earth. I THINK I have the regulator connected correctly...Had to replace a cable from 31 to B+ (too short) - the purple one. (It goes from 51 now but thats the same right?)
I have a multimeter but I am a newbie when it comes to electrics...
I will add a pic as it is now. (Have to reduce size of the file)

I am very grateful for any assistance...

FelixM



FelixM


4Taktix

Hi Felix,
- did the dynamo charge (red light off) before the engine died on the longer drive ?
- was it the original regulator on that drive ?
  if so, you have to isolate the resistance-wire from field coil 1 for usual when changing to a electronic-regulator. See description of regulator.
- did it ever charge, as long as you have the bike ?
- Check your brushes/coals: long enough ? (the attached cables must not touch the duct at the lower end of the slot )
  do the coil-springs push them down with decent force ?  Are their cables crossed ?
- for a basic check of your dynamo, use search-term "Ultimativer Lima-Dummie-Kurzcheck" or see here:
https://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/index.php?topic=8314.msg109309#msg109309
and to disentangle electric relationships: consider Ignition and dynamo with regulator as two different systems.
spark-plug, -coil, points a.s.o. have rather nothing to do with dynamo and charging the battery.

Regards,
Sascha
Think outside the box !

FelixM

Thank you Sascha!

- the regulator was an Electronic (installed -12)
- the red light was ,if I remember correct,  shining as it stopped on the road)
- before it charged from when I purchased the bike.
- the carbon brushes are new, crossed, contacts cleaned. New springs.

I understand the coils in the stator can be faulty. I could have missed something and connected something the wring way...Or could it be a faulty cable somewhere I don't see...I guess correct systematic use of the multimeter is key, but I could use help on that one...;)

OldsCool!

Hi Felix,

first try putting the black wire to D+ on the regulator. Internally, D+ and 61 might be connected in the regulator, but who knows...
Leaving it on 61 on the generator pins is fine, as there the clamp 61 is connected reasonably to D+ at the positive coal.

Next, I would try to renew the remaining magnetic field orientation in the field coils by SHORTLY (!!!) bridging 61 and 30/B+ on the Lima (most left and second left clamp). One second is well enough! This will put the residual magnetism in the right orientation again, which is important to "start up" the generator when its own power is not yet enough to power the field coils. To increase the effectiveness of this procedure, you can lift one of the coals to disengage the rotor. Then the full current will go through the field coils.
You'll experience some sparks... that shall remind you again to keep the bridge short!  ;D

Still no effect? Then it is time to measure the field coils. Again, lift the positive coal (coming from D+), pin out the yellow cable (DF) on the regulator and measure resistance from D+ to the yellow cable (DF). That should be in the 3-5Ohms range I guess (maybe others can correct, I tend to forget the precise values). If that's fine, that leaves the rotor itself to be the issue. That one's not that easy to measure and usually requires professional measurement equipment... Shout out in that case, we have Pro's here in the forum who can do that.

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

FelixM

#5
Hi Steffen, brilliant!

Will, try now after work. Just to make clear: you mean the "fatter" black now going to 61 on the regulator?

And brigding, I dont need to use any of the cables or disconnect them, just use a spare cable or something similar between the screws?

And the purple to B+ now goes from 51 instead of 30, but it doesnt matter? (Fit better). The old that was soldered at 30 I cut.

Rütz

Zitat von: FelixM am 12 Juli 2021, 19:14:48
And the purple to B+ now goes from 51 instead of 30, but it doesnt matter? (Fit better). The old that was soldered at 30 I cut.
It "should" not matter, because 51 and 30 "should" be bridged on backside of the plate.
But sometimes this bridge breaks or dies by corrosion.
So it's worth checking, whether these two pins are still soundly bridged.
I never dared to be radical when young.
For fear it would make me conservative when old. (Robert Frost)

FelixM

Thanks, will check! This is what it looks like right now. I understand the big red i battery + but the orange?
(I tried the black to D+ instead of 61-61, but to no avail.)

And - to make matters worse, yesterday the ignition light started to refuse to go out, both with key up in off position and removed altogether...I start to look at a metal waste shredder now...But you guys can save the bike! :D

FelixM


FelixM

So...I connected 61 and 51, and also 61 to 30 for 1s. No Spark. Nothing changed.

And now it also, added to the ever shining ignition lights, refuse to start! It feels like everything is going backwards...

FelixM

51/30 seems ok...can't see the back side.

FelixM

Zitat von: OldsCool! am 12 Juli 2021, 16:03:11


Still no effect? Then it is time to measure the field coils. Again, lift the positive coal (coming from D+), pin out the yellow cable (DF) on the regulator and measure resistance from D+ to the yellow cable (DF). That should be in the 3-5Ohms range I guess (maybe others can correct, I tend to forget the precise values). If that's fine, that leaves the rotor itself to be the issue. That one's not that easy to measure and usually requires professional measurement equipment... Shout out in that case, we have Pro's here in the forum who can do that.

BR

Steffen

Hi,

Sorry, but have to ask: the D+ in this case, (not D+ on the regulator I assume) what is it? The connection for the cable to the positive coal? But which one is positive? The lower or higher?

OldsCool!

Hi Felix,

D+ is the positiv coal, correct. You can use 61 as well, as it "should" be connected to D+.
D+ is the coal terminal which is isolated against the housing. The other terminal has direct connection to ground.

You did not by accident switch + & - on connecting the battery? This would instantly kill the regulator and show the behavior you described with a shining bulb even without ignition  :(

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

OldsCool!

Felix, maybe the sketch describing the red light behaviour might help. It shows how to wire correctly and how the current flow is.

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

FelixM

Hi Steffen,

I really appreciate your help! Thank You!

Regarding the continous red/green light with key renoved it might be the ignition lock itself...But I don't know how to check it...
I am pretty sure the battery always was correctly connented.

Will have a go at it again after work.

And, yes: It won't start either! Thats new together with the light problem. Guess I start with checking if theres spark.

OldsCool!

Hi Felix,

if you remove B+ from the regulator and the light is still on, then check for the ignition lock. If it goes out, then I would assume the regulators reverse-current diode is dead. Do not put any more current on the system then. It will kill your rotor otherwise.

With regards to engine start: Again, remove B+ from the regulator (or completely disconnect the reg.) and try on battery only to check for any link between generator issues and engine start issues.

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

FelixM

Zitat von: OldsCool! am 13 Juli 2021, 07:59:53
Hi Felix,

D+ is the positiv coal, correct. You can use 61 as well, as it "should" be connected to D+.
D+ is the coal terminal which is isolated against the housing. The other terminal has direct connection to ground.

You did not by accident switch + & - on connecting the battery? This would instantly kill the regulator and show the behavior you described with a shining bulb even without ignition  :(

BR

Steffen

Hi,

Like so? It reads 0,0 Ohm....

FelixM

#17
Like so 3,1 Ohm. (Black to lower carbon 4,6 Ohm)

FelixM

B+ removed from regulator. Red/Green still on.  :schimpf:

FelixM


FelixM

Key up (lights should go out but doesnt). Btw headlamp and parking light works fine.

rolf

Licht hat damit gar nichts zu tun....du stellst Licht an oder aus durch das DREHEN des Zündschlüssels
2. deine Kontakte liegen nicht aufeinander wenn du den Zündschlüssel reingedrückt hast....das sollten sie aber

Rütz

Hi Felix,
i'm suspicious about this black wire (see Pict.).
Where does it come from? It seems one too much on 30/51.

Maybee it is "15" and belongs to 15 (ignition coil)?
That would explain the always on lights...
I never dared to be radical when young.
For fear it would make me conservative when old. (Robert Frost)

FelixM

#23
Hi Rütz!

Yeah, I think there are a lot suspicous cables there...And it's crowded at 51/30. However, the thin black one was there before.
I noticed it was hard to remove the key, maybe it has pulled something. It's brand new from Uli's. (Feels like half the bike is from Uli's by now...) but worked fine beforeand it started easy and run well. (Well, As I think of it ONE time I had to push the key down harder after start to make it run.) Could be a coincidence that the ignition problem started as I connected the new regulator, but I'm not shure. Btw I squeezed together the plates in the ignition mentioned above but no engine start...

Rütz

I have no clue how it once could have started with just one Wire in Plug 15...

Really sure, it has been so before, when it started?
I never dared to be radical when young.
For fear it would make me conservative when old. (Robert Frost)

FelixM

Zitat von: Rütz am 13 Juli 2021, 20:25:08
I have no clue how it once could have started with just one Wire in Plug 15...

Really sure, it has been so before, when it started?

Hmm, you are correct....This is before I replaced anything.

OldsCool!

Well seen, Rütz!

Felix, the thinner red wire seems to be KL 15 ("ignition"). Remove it and put your gauge in between and ground measuring the voltage. Should show 6V only on key down. If so, put it back on KL 15.
Hope you did not keep the current setup powered on for two long. The ignition coil does not like permanent current on stand still with closed breaker.
Check battery again (Voltage close to 6.5V), not that it was significantly discharged during your exercises.

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

OldsCool!

Felix, your measurements sound good. Pos. coal to DF (yellow cable) is the field coils only. If you measure from DF to ground you got the rotor as well.
Just your first measurement showing 0 Ohms is not clear to me. You put one to DF (yellow) and the other to B+/51?

BR

Steffen
Ich bin auf dem Dorf aufgewachsen. Ich wurde nicht erzogen, ich habe ÜBERLEBT!

FelixM

#28
Hi guys!
The dynamo doesnt work and I will replace the whole darn thing since almost 70 year old electrical equipment will fail..And it always does far from home when it rains.

By the way, the Fliehkraftregler also broke (or the springs) and the fitting for it on the end of the rotor shaft is damaged by the many on-off:s of the Fliehkraftregler. How do You guys stop the crank shaft from moving when tightening the bolt? Or dont I need so much force? Just til the crank shaft starts to rotate? But the I still have to hold it if I want to unscrew the bolt? Pic of the damaged shaft below.

Anyway, I support the german economy by having ordered Fliehkraftregler, rotor and a new Lichtmaschine-base plate. This will get the thing back on the road!

To remove the old rotor one needs a special puller tool. (As pictured. Picture from Powerdynamo.) Is this something generic or not, if not where can I get one? Powerdynamo (for clarity - I get the original system from Uli's) show it but I cant find it for sale on their page...

Rütz

Zitat von: FelixM am 18 Juli 2021, 20:13:52
How do You guys stop the crank shaft from moving when tightening the bolt?
Switch in 4th gear and put on the brake (or jam the rear wheel by other means).
I never dared to be radical when young.
For fear it would make me conservative when old. (Robert Frost)

Similar topics (5)

Hauptmenü

Anleitungen & Bücher Baureihe Specials Startseite Vergleichsliste

Presse & Wissen

Bauzeiten & Stückzahlen Historisches Liste der BMW Modelle Presseberichte Prospekte & Plakate

Foren & Literatur

Bildergalerie Bildtafel-Suche Forum: Boxerforum Handbücher Servicedaten

Allgemeine Infos

Bildtafelsuche Glossar Impressum Kontakt Sitemap

Tipps & Service

Dienstleister Händler Märkte & Museen Tipps Verschleißteile & Werkzeuge