Charging Problems

[Garnet Grylls]

Hello to All

The charge light on my R26 will not go out unless I rev the engine to very high RPMs (near max). It then goes out quickly and the meter jumps to 10 amps. Once charging the light stays out till the engine is down to around 1500 RPMs when it goes out quickley (not the slow glow that is normal). The light does not glow dimley while charging. The Zophia E Regulator http://stores.ebay.de/Zofia-s-Oldtimerelektronik-Shop seems to work and slows the charge rate as the voltage rises.

I have had this trouble before but it goes away when I clean up the dust from the carbons. This time all was normal but I had the front cover off checking the pionts and decided to clean while there, and have made it much worse  .

The carbons are in good condition and the spring tension is good.

Any other ideas

Grüße
Garnet

[Garnet Grylls]

[Heiko]

Hi Garnet,

check the wiring from the carbons to the field coils, maybe the soldered connection there is damaged. Or the wire in the carbon is loose.


Heiko

[sigi_rs]

Hi Garnet,

some days ago, I had the same problem at my R25/3. I had to increase trottle more and more after engine start to switch off the charging lamp.

I checked the complete wiring for charging and the carbons, too. First I found a broken solder bridge between clamp 30 and 51. It was ok for one start. Then I had the same problem.

I bought new carbons and fitted them. I recognized, that the carbon dust made a layer on the collector surface. It was a mixture of grease and carbon dust. So I cleaned the collector carefully. I think the small gaps between the collector plates were the problem, because the mixture of grease and carbon leads the current.

After cleaning and polishing the collector everything was ok.

The only problem to clean the rotary collector is, that you have to remove the housing of the electric unit (I forgot the english word, sorry) to get access to it.

Perhaps you have the same problem?

Good luck and greetings from Germany

Joerg (sigi_rs)

[Garnet Grylls]

Hi Joerg,

I think you are describeing my problem . My system was working fairly normal till I cleaned the colector area with some solvent on a rag :-[. It must have filled the gaps in the collector with dust/paste. I will remove the dynamo so I can get at the ankor and clean it properly.

@Heiko

I will also look for poor connections.  I was pokeing around a lot while cleaning and may have hurt something.

Garnet G(etting charged up)

[kruemel]

hi garnet!

may you should not use a cloth or anything that puts the dirt in the gaps. I could imagine, that using engine cleaner or (more agressive) brake cleaner - sprayed on the LiMa housing will have a good effect. If you dry the LiMa then gently with compressed air, the dirt will be blasted away... and the solvent will also dissipate.

I think this is even better than using a toothbrush or a Q-Tip (that's the german name  - maybe it's cotton tip?)

I wish you success and don't forget to tighten the three lima screws (otherwise - you will have the same experience like me in the german nowhere without the fitting tool and no mass connection for the LiMa...)

best regards, kruemel

[Garnet Grylls]

No Change!!!

I removed the the LIMa and very carefully polished the collector area with very very fine sandpaper, then washed it clean with brake clean and blew dry. ........... Damm, I just remebered that I pushed the carbons back in but did not check that the spring was set in place on the one behind the points. It has tricked me before. I'll be right back.

Garnet

[Garnet Grylls]

No not that lucky. Both springs are in place pushing on the brushes.

I could see no bad connections other than a bit of fraying where the wire connects to the carbons. But that has been for a while and would not suddenly cause a ploblem.

Should there be any readings on an Ohme meter between the segments on the ankor?
I think I will have a beer and sleep on it . That sometimes helps.

Garnet N(ot charged up)

[† odeon8]

Should there be any readings on an Ohme meter between the segments on the ankor?

Hi Garnet, it should, something around 0.2..0.3 Ohms,
to be measured between two copper plates located 90° apart.

Your description gives me the idea of a broken exciter winding -
there are two static windings in the generator: One is the REAL
exciter giving an alternating magnetic  field for the rotor, and a 2nd
winding representing the regulation resistor. If the exciter winding
has lost the connection to the "DF" pin of the regulator the remaining
resistor-winding may behave as a reduced exciter winding.

Carefully check the connection to "DF"  and the ground connection
of the exiter winding. A detailed schematic of the generator is here.

Good luck - Thomas

[Garnet Grylls]

Hi Thomas!

Thank you, it will be a couple of days before I have the time to take it all apart again and carefully check what may be wrong.
I will keep you informed what I find .

Garnet G(one  on my other Oldtimer)

[Garnet Grylls]

Good Morning Alle!

I removed the entire Lichtmaschine and very carefully checked all the connections and compared it to the spare from my R60. A previous owner has done much work inside and many parts look to be the same. The windings have been changed and look much like the ones from my twin. The previous owner had some twins so I suspect taht is where the parts came from.

MY bike had a Z regulator but no resistor . It usualy worked but the lights flickerd a lot. This spring I installed a E Reg and things worked better.

Today I found that the wire that had gone to the resistor was attatched to ground. That must have been needed with the Z reg but it is wrong according to the instructions for the E Reg. I did notice that the charge rate was very high at speeds over 100kmh.

I also found a bare spot of wire between the Feild and the + Kohle . That may have been touching ground and causing a problem.

These faults may have damaged the E Regler. If my trouble continues I will put one of my Z Regler back. Should I use the resistor form my twin (7 ohm) or should I find a 4 ohm like the R27.

Garnet N(ot grounged)

[rolf]

Hey Garnet,
if you use a Z-Regler without resistor you have to use the resistor of Lichtmaschine.
there a several types of Z-Regler in the world, with Cap and resistor, no cap but a resistor, without cap and no resistor, the same for 12Volt and so on.
As I remember ( ) : the windings are the same (twins and singles), you can look at the sparelist and look at the spare-part numbers (same number=same part).
Rolf C(heers!)

[Heiko]

As I remember ( ) :
Rolf C(heers!)

[Garnet Grylls]

Hello

As suspected it seems that my E-Regler is no more good . When I installed the Z-Regler and resistor from my R60, the system works backwards. The charge light goes out slowly at about 1000 RPM but the meter briefly bounces posative then goes up to 13A negative . I "polarized" the unit by touching + from 30 to the feild. This did not change anything :-[.

I then removed the resistor and grounded the feild. It will now charge at about 1500 RPMs but by about 3000 the charge light flickers and the meter bounces as the points in the regler open and close.

I can at least ride now while I decide if I should get a new E-Regler or go for a MZ-B

Garnet B(ouncer)

[Rütz]

Hi Garnet,

are you really sure, that your meter is correctly poled?
Normally the light will not go out, when the dynamo has the wrong polarisation, but will light brighter and brighter...

I "polarized" the unit by touching + from 30 to the feild

To set clear: You have to touch +/30 to the positive end of the field (= D+ = the positive coal). The other end schould be grounded by the (Z-)regulator.

Anselm

[† odeon8]

Hi Garnet,

be careful - there are two types of controlling a DC generator:

1) Having the exciter coil connected to D+ and pulling the other
    end to ground (most popular way)


(source: http://geschichte.cjb.cc/d2b/)

2) The exciter winding is connected to GND and the regulator
    connects the other end to D+

The two methods require different regulators !

Did you look at the BMW´s repair manual (German):



A detailed connection schematic is here:

http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/Start/tips/Bauanleitungen/feldspul.php

and here:

http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/Start/tips/Bauanleitungen/limaansl.php

And some more could be found here:

http://www.bmw-einzylinder.de/Start/tips/bauanleit.php

Thomas (F1)

[Garnet Grylls]

@ Anselm:

My meter is poled correctly because the voltage was droping as the meter showed discharge. But I was polarizing the wrong end of the feild :-[.  I did close the circuit breaker on the regler as Kees advises here: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/3213/dynamo.html so perhaps that repolarized the dyno correctly .

@ Thomas

Thank you for the links, I will look at my regler to make sure it is correct.

Garnet S(parky)

[† odeon8]

Hey Garnet , great link  -  i searched a while for getting a good explanation
due to your problem and this one is perfect (and in English  )

Hope u will be successful....

Thomas R(otary Current)

[Garnet Grylls]

Thank You All!!!!

I tried my E-Regler again but with wire that once went to the resistor going to ground, as it was before, and it seems to work normaly .  I do not know why as the instructions say to disconnect the resistor not eleminte it . I will now go for a nice test  to make sure it works.

Now I owe more beer

Garnet W(ell gounded)

[Garnet Grylls]

Good Morning

Well it seems that the system charges but is not regulated. As the RPMs rise the rate of charge also rises. At 80 KM/H the meter is reading 10 amps. I did not have a volt meter fitted while riding but the battery was fully charged before I started. With the headlamp on I need to travel at about 70 KM/H to keep up.

So I do think the E-Regler has been damadged as it is not controlling the voltage. For now I can still ride and use the headlamp to keep the battery from boiling .

Garnet U(nregulated)

[rolf]

Hallo Garnet,
why you don't like 10 A?
with 6 V it's only 60 Watt
you have (should have) a 60-90 Watt Lichtmaschine, so your max Amp are 15A.
Greetings
Rolf

[Rütz]

I think he meant 10 A charge current into the (not empty) batterie, not overall current from the "Lichtmaschine".

@Garnet:
With luck you will just have to readjust your E-regler to the correct voltage, 'cause he ist now working without the resistor.

Anselm L(uck-wishing)

[rolf]

Es lässt schon tief blicken wenn auf unseren Smilyboard kein "Aha" smily (oder geistesblitz) abgelegt ist

[† odeon8]

Hi Rolf - das war ja ein Geistesblitz !!!

(guggst Du unten)

Thomas

[Garnet Grylls]

Hello

I will now test with a voltmeter to be sure.

@Rolf

If I travel at Hiekospeed I am sure that I will reach 15 A.

Greetings
Garnet F(ull of charge)

[rolf]

perhaps 157 A, if Heiko speedometer doesn't lie

[Heiko]

...if your battery is empty Garnet !... by the way, at 157 Amps, i am sure, your eggs will be roasted gents!

[Garnet Grylls]

... I think I will need an egg protecter . I fitted a voltmeter and found that it will rise to 10V  if revved high. But at normal speeds of 50 to 70 it stays around 7V so I am happy. If I am above that for long I can use the headlamp. 

I tried adjusting the regler but 1/2 turn either way made no change .

Garnet  ( eggs)

[rolf]

Hey garnet,
turn 3 or more times (no joke )

[kruemel]

Hey garnet,
turn 3 or more times (no joke )

hi garnet!

that's really no joke - my regulator produced 6,4 Volt maximum, I hab to turn it about 3-4 times until 7,20V were reached...

regards, kruemel

[rolf]

Thanks Kruemel,
it's real depressing that I need another guy to confirm my statements!
Rolf J(oker)