Pagusa Saddle Installation R25/2 - Now What?

[Kurt in S.A.]

Taz -

The last two pictures are the key.  You had mentioned inserted the forward frame "backwards" and then flipping it.  I briefly tried that but wasn't able to complete it...I'll have to consider that again.  Thanks for taking the time.  I hope to talk to the Michigan guy today or tomorrow and see what his suggestions are.

Kurt

[Kurt in S.A.]

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

When it comes to the "flipping" thr trick is turning the front part of the frame with one hand and bending the rather stiff front part of the rubber saddle with the other to help the frame with sliding in place....and every ° in temperature will count...instead of having a go in the cold garage trying to finish the job in front of a roaring fire place will certainly help...

Good luck, Taz

[Anulu]

Geile Anleitung!


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[4Taktix]

Stimmt - sehe ich genau so 
Ließe sich höchstens noch durch ein Youtube-Filmchen übertreffen 
Gruß,
Sascha

[Borgward]

Geile Anleitung!

Am besten in "Tipps und Tricks" verlinken - dann findet man die Anleitung bei Bedarf wieder (im englischen discussion forum sucht man doch nicht so schnell)

[Taz]

Wenns für Karl ok ist können wir die Bilder ja an den scbon bestehenden Artikel zum Thema Sattelbezug anhängen...in Deutschland braucht sich aber keiner schinden....siehe mein Angebot im Mitgliederbereich....

Viele Grüße, Taz

[Anulu]

Deutschland braucht sich aber keiner schinden....siehe mein Angebot im Mitgliederbereich....

Viele Grüße, Taz

Aber wo bleibt dann der Spass

Übrigens sehr geil deine Sattelarmbrust

Damit geht das bestimmt in unter 2 Minuten ohne sich die Finger aufzuhauen, und das ganze Geraffel in einem Wutanfall an die Wand zuklatschen ...

Aber ich denke auch das es nicht schlecht wäre, die Fotostrecke aufzunehmen.

[Karl]

Wenns für Karl ok ist können wir die Bilder ja an den scbon bestehenden Artikel zum Thema Sattelbezug anhängen...

Na kla rist das ok. Hast du Zugriff auf die Rubrik "T&T"?
Die Idee mit dem YouTube-Video find ich übrigens hervorragend! 

[Taz]

Hallo Karl.

Ja, geht...ich habe es als eigene Antwort drangehängt, wenn Du magst kannst Du den Text ja in den Originalbeitrag einfügen.

Liebe Grüße, Ute

PS: Filmchen wäre auch nett, aber dann müsste es den ganzen Weg zeigen und ... wer gibt den Darsteller?

[Anulu]

Du?


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[Kurt in S.A.]

Not sure I followed all the German...google helped a bit!   

Well, this is where I'm at.  I had some help...a burly guy and me.  This seems to be as far as we could get.  The "bending and fold" technique I mentioned above just wasn't going to work.  Too much distance to make up.  I'm going to build a fixture and wait for some sunshine to warm things up a bit.

What a PITA!!   

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

The German was not relevant for this task...just a wee bit of tittle-tattle...

I am very happy for you that you have succeeded with inserting the frame into the rubber seat as such...connecting the two parts of the frame isn't all that difficult and using a proper tool will always mean that you can leave out the heating-up-the-rubber-and-burning-your-fingers part...

Inserting the frame is 50% experience, 40% lubrication and 10% power 

All the best, Taz

[Anulu]

Hello Kurt, sorry me english is  . Did you know the " Tips and Trick"  ? -> "Satteldecke bespannen" -> http://bmw-einzylinder.de/forum/index.php?topic=8379.msg109409#msg109409

[Kurt in S.A.]

Yes, I've visited the Tips and Tricks.  I will be fashioning something along those lines to stretch the saddle onto the frame.  I'll wait until I can get a day with some bright sunshine to help out.

Kurt

[† Will]

Yes, I've visited the Tips and Tricks.  I will be fashioning something along those lines to stretch the saddle onto the frame.  I'll wait until I can get a day with some bright sunshine to help out.
Kurt

I also have the urge to fabricate a stretcher frame with some steel flats and angle iron from my stockpile.
Like Kurt the weather needs to be a lot warmer before I venture out to the workshop.
Whatever I eventually come up with, I'll post on here probably after my impending cataract operation.

[Kurt in S.A.]

I'm concerned about the levels of forced used in this stretching process.  I have planned on using an angle bracket maybe 3-4mm thick to go around the two mounting bolts in the back.  That will put some high loads right on the threads of those bolts.  That seems like a problem.  Also, there will be loads that are attempting to bend these bolts off the rear mounting bar.  Again, seems like a pending problem.

I was going to try and put a sleeve around the rear frame bolts so the load is not right on the threads.  But still worried about the tendency to bend the bolts that stick up out of the frame.

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

If you have a closer look at my assembling tool (as shown in the tips article mentioned earlier)- adapted VW beetle jack that looks like a crossbow with the empty frame attached-thus the nickname Pagusa-crossbow-details shown on the last four pictures of Karls initial post of that thread.



That one has seen (and assembled) at least a score of seats in the last years...all of them mounted to the angle steel at the bottom of the jack with precisely the two bolts of the back part of the frame and using some rope to pull the front part until the two parts can be joined.... there was never a problem re. the bolts and as the angle steel only connects to the 3 or 4 mms of the threads closest to the rubber this won't affect the usability of the threads at all...

Don't worry and start welding 

All the best, Taz

[Kurt in S.A.]

I try to think this stuff through...being sure I don't create a worse problem.  I guess my bail out position is that I can buy the seat brand new with the internal frame already installed.  Still, I'd like to keep the original stuff.  I noticed that the old rubber has "52" molded into the bottom of it!

Kurt

[Herculestom]

Kurt,

here seems to be the difference between cowboys and bushmen. While cowboys will think about a way to bail out, we'll maak'n plan. 

Don't even think about buying a new saddle. You are almost there! You now know the two crucial elements, to bring the front part in and turn it by 180 degrees and then the mechanical stretching of the complete unit by probably less than one inch. I can only motivate you to just do it. At the end of the day it is going be "your" old saddle on the bike. Pls don't give up, be a bushman.

Good luck!
Tom

[Kurt in S.A.]

Die Maschine ist gebaut!  I hope that's right!

Anyway, I managed to reach this stage where the stretching has begun.  But I'm seeing a problem in that because of the attachment to the bracket on the front frame, the rear end of the frame is getting higher and higher.  This makes it impossible to slide the rod ends into the holes in the rear frame.  Not sure how I'm going to deal with that.  I can use my hand to hold this down but it takes more than just one hand...have to turn the stretching rod at the same time.

Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer with lots of sun.  I'll give it another shot tomorrow.

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

Not bad...if you don't mind I would suggest two minor changes.

1. instead of pulling at the flaps try a sling on the frame itself, just where it disappears into the rubber at the "nose" (red)....that way the front part will be easier to navigate.

2. make a solid floor to the box at the rear part and clamp down the rear part with a 2x2 with two strategically drilled holes for the bolts and two clamps....use some old towel to avoid damager to the rubber...

Apart from that your tool looks pretty good, it should be able to do the trick.

Good luck and I will my fingers crossed.

All the best, Taz

[Kurt in S.A.]

Taz -

Thanks.  As I've thought about it, I need to stiffen up the nose attachment.  I'm using s-hooks which lets the tabs rotate freely.  The hooks were easy to use...I'll need to cut a piece of metal to bolt to the tabs which I'm hoping will help rotate it back into plane.

Not sure I understand your other suggestion.   

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

Sorry, there seem to be a few misunderstandings...the nose attachment won't need stiffening up, the suggestion to use a sling will just allow for the same amount of free "rotation" as your hooks do...but e.g. the usage of a piece of strap will make the pull bite closer both to the front and to the center thus reducing the tilting moment on the front part of the frame substantially...this will keep the ends of this frame part way further down than pulling at the flaps will ever do...

Second suggestion comes from my misunderstanding about which ends are moving into a wrong direction...the idea behind that was to keep the back part of the frame in a fixed position so you will only have to deal with the front part.

Sorry, Taz

[Kurt in S.A.]

Taz -

OK, that makes sense on the tilting.  I'll have to get something else to make the sling.

Kurt

[Kurt in S.A.]

That didn't work.  On to something else.

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

Sorry to hear that....would you like to be more specific or are you so frustrated at the moment that you are seriously considering buying a new Indian and make that old beemer take a 30-year barn nap?

Don't give up, Taz

[Kurt in S.A.]

Taz -

Basically, the tilting of the front frame was not affected by the wire-rope sling I used as you suggested.  So, I'm going to cut a piece of metal to bolt to the two tabs and have a hole to which I can attach my stretching hook.  As I look at all of the other suggestions in Tips and Tricks, they have a solid connection to the front tabs.  The loose connection that I tried with the S-hooks and the sling don't help or control that tilt.  So, I'll try something else.

This is getting pretty frustrating.  If this doesn't work, I'm not sure what I can do.

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

Would you mind posting a picture of your sling attached? True, even the pics of my tool show a fixed front frame, but the last ten or so saddles have been done with just a piece of strap attached as drafted in my last pic and although that didn't eliminate tilting completely it did reduce it to an amount that was could be handled...maybe it helps to know that I never let the front frame tilt much, I use one hand to control tilting as much as possible so it won't stand up too far if at all...with your tool it might come handy to have a second pair person available...isn't threre someone around who might want to earn that extra pint?

All the best, Taz

[Kurt in S.A.]

Taz -

Sorry, I didn't take a picture of that.  It was just a small piece of vinyl-coated steel cable which I wrapped inside the rubber and the two pieces on each side were tied together with wire clamps.

I've just now converted to my latest setup...attached.  Sad to say, it's just not working.  The front frame still flips up high in the air.  I don't have ready access to a spare set of hands.  I've been getting some assistance from my old place of work.  I'll take it back tomorrow and see what can be done.  Today was going to be the day...bright sun and 80F outside.  Tomorrow cooler.

I'm about ready to throw in the towel.   

Kurt

[Taz]

Hello Kurt.

If all else fails send the parts to me (address via pm) and I'll do it for you....but before that J will have a gk in my garage and set up a saddle with a the tools attached... might take a few minutes....please stay tuned...

All the best, Taz